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No, you haven't stumbled across Engadget, Gizmodo or Boy Genius by some mistake, and no I'm not going to be taking this blog in a new gadgety direction. But yes, I am going to post a very plausible rumour that has caught my ear about the upcoming 3G iPhone launch on the Rogers network here in Canada. After all, the thing has been quite game-changing gadget and it can certainly be used to improve your productivity on the go, which is a recurring theme on this blog.
And besides, what can I say, my inner journalist couldn't help but to publish such juicy breaking news from an inside source!*
For those of you who did not know, Rogers Wireless, Canada's only GSM carrier, has been advertising a July 11th 3G iPhone launch since Steve Jobs' keynote at WWDC last month. Because, like most of the world, we were left out of the first iPhone launch, this is kind of a big deal.
Since the announcement, it's been the main image on their web site, the main focus of their ad campaigns, and according to my source at Rogers,
But then, Rogers announced their iPhone data and voice pricing plans, which were, in the Canadian wireless provider tradition, astronomically high. This in turn prompted the launch of a site called RuinediPhone.com, where Canadians were invited to sign a virtual petition asking Apple to step in and demand fair pricing plans from Rogers.
To date over
And here comes the really juicy news part.
Yesterday, while the American giant slept, the Canadian telecom industry was a-buzz with information, albeit all of it internal and very hush-hush.
Here are the tidbits I have managed to glean from my source within Rogers (And I'll let you draw your own conclusions):
- First, an employee of Apple Canada sends a text message to my source that says something to the effect of: "You guys are screwed for iPhone," but will not respond to multiple replies asking for clarification.
- Next, an employee at competing handset manufacturer RIM (Blackberry's parent) sends my source a text soon after saying there are rumours of an Apple-Rogers fallout.
- Then, my source receives a call notifying him that all the part-time staff who had been hired for next week's launch have been fired without notice. (UPDATE 07/06: Apparently, only certain dealerships took on additional staff for the launch, although most urban locations did. Also, some dealerships may not have let all their iPhone help go, but others definitely have. It's important to clarify that any decisions to let staff go were made at the individual dealer level, and not by Rogers corporate...at least not directly.) (UPDATE 07/09: See the Update at the end of this article for the full text of an email one of the let go employees received from a Rogers dealership terminating their employment before it began.)
- And finally, a senior Rogers rep confirms to my source that Apple has decided to divert a large percentage of their planned Canadian shipment to Europe and that each Rogers store may now be getting as few as 10-20 units. This is
ostensiblypossibly due to Apple's displeasure over Rogers' high data and voice rates. (UPDATE 07/06: Although no per-store numbers can be confirmed, the verbiage used by head office is apparently that numbers will be "significantly reduced" and that stores should "exercise caution" not to over-promise. Europe has also been reconfirmed as the destination for the allegedly diverted units.)
Touche!
So, my friends, I know many of you are American and could care less about how we Canucks get our hands on a legit iPhone, but even still, what do you think?
If these rumblings are true, do you think (as I do) that they represent a power play by Apple? And if so, does that mean RuinediPhone's petition actually made an impact?
Or is this just something as mundane (but still harmful) as a production or shipping delay, blown out of proportion? Let's hear your thoughts in the comments.
Of course, a lot can change in a week, so we may never know what truly happened behind the scenes here. But if this is indeed a power play by Cupertino, we may just see more competitive plans from Rogers before the dust settles. Not being gouged for once, gee, that would be nice...
*For obvious reasons, my source wishes to remain
UPDATE 07/08: A new post on AppleInsider today reports that Apple will not be selling the iPhone in its 6 Canadian Retail locations on Friday because of their displeasure with the rate plans offered, citing an internal Apple conference call last night. It would seem that this story corroborates the claims from my own source outlined above.
UPDATE 07/08: You may also wish to read my followup post from today: The 5 Step Rogers Wireless Guide To Building a Loyal Customer Base.
UPDATE: 07/09: Don't believe people were let go in the lead up to the launch? Then take a read through the following email, which was sent to me by an ex-employee who read about this story on CBC.ca and wishes to remain anonymous for now:
Dear XXXX,
We regret to inform you that due to circumstances beyond our control,
we unfortunately will not be requiring extra staffing for the summer
and therefore your employment opportunity with Rogers must be
rescinded. We appreciate your time and effort during the interview
process and the training that you may have attended. We regret any
inconvenience that this may have caused.
As you attended in class training, you will be compensated for your
time. As of 07/11/08, you can pick up your cheque at our XXXX location.At this time, we require that you return your copy
of the employment agreement when you pick up your check.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me via e-mail.
Again, we truly appreciate your time and enthusiasm towards working at
a Rogers store this summer. We will keep your resume on file in the
case a future opportunity arises.
We wish you a safe and happy summer.
Also, an article in the Ottawa Citizen this morning challenged the integrity of this post. I have responded here: The Empire Strikes Back: Rogers Responds (And The Media Plays Right Along)
---
Thanks for visiting Smithereens. This may be a decidedly tech-ish article, this isn't really a tech blog, per se: I write mostly about productivity, persuasion and the art of writing.
Having said that, you may be interested in reading a few of my most popular entries about getting things done using web technology:
- Make Google Reader Your Web Brain in 3 Simple Steps
- The Top 5 Reasons I Left Wordpress.com for Blogger
- 5 Ways To Use Google Reader As Your Personal Social Search Centre
- The Twitter Funnel: Tweeting to Tighten Your Writing
- How To Manage Multiple Personalities Online Without Going Crazy (Using Gmail, Twitter and FriendFeed)
I know there are plenty of Apple lovers here in the U.S. who decided against the iPhone because AT&T was the sole carrier. Sounds, though, like Rogers is even more problematic . Let's hope that Apple (or someone) can twist Ted's arm to better the deal for subscribers.
@Mark David: The problem is exacerbated here and not only by Rogers' horrible rate plans. Unlike in the states where unlocked iPhones can be used on the t-Mobile network or any other GSM carrier, here in Canada Rogers (and its subsidiary Fido) share the only GSM network. So even if you buy an iPhone on eBay and unlock it, you still have no choice but to buy a Rogers plan in order to use it. No competition is always a bad thing for consumers.
I am looking forward to the finalization of our spectrum auction to see if a few more competitors added to the mix might make things a bit better for consumers...
Wow, I hope this is true. As I wrote in my letter to Rogers and Apple Canada,
"I have also c.c.'d Simon Atkins of Apple Canada in the hope that they will reconsider their arrangement with Rogers either now or at the termination of your current contract. My clients and I have been loyal customers of Apple's for over 2 decades and I know they listen to their customers."
I am keeping my fingers crossed.
So..... I'm not on Engadget? :P
@anon My fingers are crossed, too - we've endured high wireless prices for far too long, this was just the last straw.
@firefruze I know, I know, hard to believe, right? I just like to keep everything on the level :P
It would serve Rogers right for the way they've bungled this launch.
On a somewhat related note, if you need a place to refer people to for a summary of why the Rogers rate plans are a really bad value, send them here:
http://getthefactsonrogersiphone.com/
I'm also hoping to bring attention to how bad cellphone rates are for all Canadians -- so Bill C-555 is also mentioned.
@russell- I couldn't agree with you more. The way Rogers operates in general is pretty deplorable. But then, I've had service with both Bell and Telus is much neither is much better. My term for the phenomenon is collaborative incompetence.
Belus' pricing might be a little better than Rogers' of late, but it's only because they are trying to grab as many customers as possible before they have to make a laborious and expensive architecture switch to GSM... But I digress. The point is, wireless consumers in Canada truly need a break.
Anyway, thank you for sharing the link to your page. I have added it as a link in the body of the article (see: astronomically expensive.)
Daniel
The only part of those rumours I'm concerned about is the one referring to the extra help.
I, too, wish to keep my job and as such choose to be very careful with my wording here.
My understanding is that only the Rogers centre in Moncton is going to be supporting the iPhone. I am not aware of any third party support.
The people in Moncton would not be fired because they are already supporting other devices.
@anonymous- the reference to extra help was directed at a group of part-timers, mostly students, that had been hired and trained by Rogers dealerships to help handle the expected iPhone rush, but have now been let go, at least by some dealership chains. I hadn't heard anything about call centre employees, but as you say, I'm sure they have plenty of support work to do and doubt their jobs are in jeopardy.
Can this be true rogers is getting left behind for screw clients over wow good they desserve it but sad for apple lovers like my self
It would be nice if Apple, wanting to deal with Rogers, suddenly sent a couple hundred thousand CDMA iPhones to Telus and Bell to see what they'd do with them.
@anonymous(3) - It should be interesting to see how things shake out.
@graham - I appreciate the sentiment, but a CDMA iPhone would open a whole other international can of worms, wouldn't it? :P
The most interesting comment for me (and I hate Apple and think the iPhone is a girl's phone):
"a senior Rogers rep confirms that Apple has decided to divert a large percentage of their planned Canadian shipment to Europe and that each Rogers store may now be getting as few as 10-20 units"
Does this mean there isn't any carrier branding? At this late stage, if there's carrier branding, it would be a PITA to reflash all those iPhones. Also, it's a confirmation that hardware-wise the phones are identical (which was assumed but not confirmed).
-Mc
@McHale: That is a good point and one I have pondered as well.
There are two possible explanations: First, I am told that Rogers flashes their firmware upon receipt of the units, rather than having them loaded before shipping. This may or may not be true, but if it is, would explain the situation. Of course, there are no stickers or other such branding on an iPhone so that wouldn't be an issue anyway.
The second possibility is that the move, if legitimate, could just be pure posturing on the part of Apple, who might want Rogers to believe they will withhold units, even if it will be a PITA, as you say, to divert them.
Only time will tell... and as I've mentioned a few times already, even then, maybe not!
Hmmm... I somehow doubt that the shipment was diverted -- The packaging would have to be completely changed, as Canadian boxes, and power supplies and everything else would have to be switched out. All in under a week? I seriously doubt that.
That said, I hope Apple is leaning on Rogers.
I was on the news the other day in Vancouver explaining that I'm canceling my Rogers contract -- Doing the math, I can easily make up my ECF and go with an Instinct or other similar device for a year until such time as the GSM market opens up.
@daniel smith: I am looking forward to the finalization of our spectrum auction to see if a few more competitors added to the mix might make things a bit better for consumers...
keep an eye out, the parent company of Yak (a 3rd party coast to coast Long Distance service provider), Globalive (http://www.globalive.com/) has put down like a TON of money (in the range of 235,000,000 dollats :P) to create a new wireless network, so lets hope that they're going to run a GSM network and can compete with Rogers :)
I don't believe that inventory is being diverted to the UK. For one the iPhones are probably already shipping out from China as I type this and if not Apple has them already packaged for the North American market. Don't forget that the UK plugs are different and chances are strong that the iPhones are close to our shores already. And really if Rogers has already ordered x amount of phones does Apple really care if they sit in the Rogers stores a little longer until they smarten up with their prices? They are already shipped and sold in Apples eyes.
@mchale: The iPhone is a girl's phone? I'm assuming you have a "man's phone", even though you make immature sexist comments like a 6-year-old boy?
The iPhone is unbranded, which is the nice thing about it. All iPhones have identical hardware/firmware that is unmodified and uncontrolled by the carriers. In that, it is truly a unique phone (for the US and Canada at least).
@Tanya and Scott- Your point about region-specific packaging and accessories is well taken. The weird thing is, however, of all the claims in this story, the fact that a large percentage of stock initially earmarked for the Canadian launch has been diverted is the part my source is MOST sure about. He's confirmed it with two superiors, in fact.
Maybe things are even more complicated than it appears. Maybe there -is- a production issue, which Apple is masking by calling it a stock diversion to kill two birds with one stone (put pressure on Rogers re: price plans and save face over prod issues.) In other words, maybe the "diverted iPhones" haven't even made it off the line yet. Now that is pure speculation, but then anything is possible...
Or, maybe the phones were to be boxed and accessorized in the destination country (this could make sense from a industrial standardization standpoint, if all the 3G iPhones are indeed identical.)
@Tanya, I'm with you completely on the cancellation cost/benefit. Only problem is that I find all the Canadian carriers deplorable in their own right. Rogers just seems to be the worst offender, for the time being...
Which brings me to Michael's comment:
That info about Yak is really interesting. I also know that a few regional cableco's were ready to shell out, namely Videotron in Quebec and there were even rumours a few months ago that a major world player like T-Mobile might make the necessary arrangements to set up a Canadian subsidiary and bid. I can't wait to see how it all works out. The more the merrier (for consumers.)
Prepare for a LOT of Canadian traffic over the next couple of days!
This rings true. Apple can't be happy with how Rogers has handled this.
From what I understand, Rogers isn't being allowed to brand the iPhone so that isn't an issue.
However, I would anticipate that perhaps this is a reference to future production that was allocated to the Canadian market. You have to remember that Canadian boxes and manuals would be different too (french) in addition to the issues with European wall plugs.
Since this is affecting Rogers, are there any repercussions on Fido's iPhones launch?
Is Fido receiving less iPhones too?
Logically yes; since Fido is a branch of the Rogers company.
Ty for the answers.
@Steven - Exactly. Not many manufacturers could get away with mass producing one model of phone and shipping it worldwide to be boxed and accessorized in the destination countries. Not saying that is what is happening here, but it's possible.
@casey - I know, I can't believe the traction this story is getting and it's only going to get bigger when the big dogs like Giz and Engadget pick it up. Ay carumba- Unbelievable. I just posted it as a little juicy tidbit for my Canadian readers, and here we are 125 diggs, 1 Boy Genius post, an AppleInsider and MacRumors.com mention and 2,000 uniques later... wow. Talk about surfing the socnet wave! lol
As for wall plugs and accessories comment, see my response to Tanya and Scott above.
@anon(4) - I have no idea how the distribution of iPhones will be affected among any Rogers stores, let alone between Rogers/Fido locations. Fido is carrying the iPhone, at least that was the plan. But all we know is that the total number of units has been reduced, and we can take some guess as to why.
Thanks for all our comments - let's keep the discussion going!
@ several previous posters
I have an OG iPhone I bought on eBay and I can tell you that most of the market specific branding and labeling was applied to the plain black box on adhesive decals The accompanying paperwork was minimal, and you are directed to download the PDF of the manual.
Also: The 3G iPhone will not be shipping with a power adapter or cradle. It will ship only with a USB charger, with USB power adapters available as after-market purchases at an Apple reseller.
I have no inside information, but that would seem to make it easy to divert the plain black box to any market caught with a short fall. Or, you know, any market not in Apple's good books.
@anon(5) Thanks for sharing - that does help explain the stock diversion! Turns out my guess about box and accessories being added in the country of destination was pretty much on target. The point about the USB charger is a good one too. Who needs pesky wall plugs?
here is another site http://www.notrogers.com/
"...it's only going to get bigger when the big dogs like Giz and Engadget pick it up."
It has been picked up by the Globe, CBC, CTV, Reuters and many more news outlets.
"I have also c.c.'d Simon Atkins of Apple Canada"
Can you give us his email address? Thanks.
This is a letter I've sent to the Vancouver Board of Trade, VIATeC, the Victoria Chamber of Commerce, plus various newspapers and tech companies.
If you think it is useful, contact your local Chamber and media, plus any other businesses and business organizations you think would be concerned.
I'm writing about something I think should be of great concern to any business or business organization.
Currently, there is a huge stink about Rogers' outrageous data rates. It has been picked up by the CBC, the Globe, Reuters, CTV and many other news organizations. The topic is currently being brought into focus by the pent-up demand for the iPhone (petition at ruinediphone.com), but, of course, their rates have always been outrageous.
I read an article recently that postulated the crippling of Canada's information industry because of such rates. I think the article makes a very sound point. We've gone from being Internet leaders to trailing badly. But the same crippling effect permeates all business, both internally in Canada, and in international competition. While business people elsewhere freely exchange information, Canadians ration themselves on their mobiles because of the potential charges of up to a thousand dollars they could incur in a month, with overage.
If a country like Rawanda can do it, why not Canada? Data there is dirt cheap compared to us. A very different story from Canada.
Rogers are operating in the sort of past where BC Tel used to charge $50/hour for long distance. They think they are still back there. Unfortunately, because of their monopoly, they are!
I think any business organization should be agitating vigorously with the government to bring Rogers and the rest of them under control - for the sake of both the IT sector and for all business in Canada.
Thank you for your consideration,
Michael Linehan
It was said that the iPhone does NOT ship with a power adapter.
That is not true according to the US Apple.com website.
It states,
In the box
iPhone 3G
Stereo Headset with mic
Dock Connector to USB Cable
USB Power Adapter
Documentation
Cleaning/polishing cloth
SIM eject tool
at first i was really worried with this post when i saw it referenced on appleinsider, but after reading a couple thoughts (and thinking back to my work experience with manufacturing) is that these phones/packages have most likely been produced already and are in transit. plus, i am sure that rogers has signed agreements in place assuring delivery of a certain amount of units on day one. manufacturing isn't a car, it's a train. to stop it isn't quick, it takes time. Rogers announcement and the backlash only started last week, to turn it around will take time, weeks not days. THAT being said, i am willing to believe that your source may have knowledge of a slow-down in 3rd or 4th shipments in anticipation of reduced allotments due to reduced demand (since apple is most likely thinking until the plans are changed nobody is going to want one) but i would think we are going to get the same amount day one we were going to get 4-5 months ago when the deal was signed. that being said, we could only be getting 10-20per store, this is a world-wide launch, reminds me of the wii, PS3 and xbox 360 a bit, sure someone is going to get the shaft, might as well be the beer drinkers!
@ Daniel Smith: the "USB power adapter" actually refers to a wall plug included in the box, the box still includes a USB cable. it would be murder to sell a cell phone that requires a computer to charge, apple knows that.
PENISPENIS
@Anon(6) Thanks for sharing.
@michaellinehan Great letter, thanks for posting it here! I hope we can get a lot of people to send a version away. Maybe it will make a dent...
@David M - Am I missing something? I don't see a regular power adapter on the list you posted.
@dean- I appreciate what you're saying, but the fact that apple has cut back on shipments isn't really up for debate - a Rogers Dealer on the Boy Genius version of this story has even posted a comment confirming this is the case. What remains a mystery is Apple's motivation for doing so.
But if it is true that the iPhone comes with a wall plug, then I guess I'll revert back to my earlier suggestion that perhaps accessories and packaging are done at the port of entry, but aside from that all 3G iPhones are identical...
oh and anon(7), I left your constructive comment through *comment moderation* (ever heard of it?) simply to showcase your absolute brilliance...
Serves Rogers right.
@ Daniel Smith:
Apple is pretty well known for drop-shipping directly from China, i would assume to keep costs down everything is done on that end, placed in a box, and the next time it sees light is when the sales person opens it up at the store.
again, i do not doubt your sources, only the time-line.
By the way, this is off-topic, but I figure while I have the extra eye balls I should ask: I just noticed today that the transparency around the search box on my header of my template doesn't render properly in IE (surprise, surprise.) Does anyone know of a workaround to fix it? It looks beautiful in FF, Safari and, you know, every other modern browser... Thanks in advance for the help.
The comments about power supplies being different in Europe is valid but has NOTHING to do with the iPhone as it charges off the iPod connector via USB so it can go anywhere.
AFAIK, there is no wall adapter in the box.
An American here...
After seeing a couple stories about the astronomical prices Rogers is charging Canadians for the iPhone plans, I was shocked. These make AT&T's US plans look economical in comparison, and I think that their new 3G iPhone plans are a joke, and I will not be upgrading to the 3G for this reason.
I feel for you Canucks, and you have my support! Hopefully this Apple-Rogers experience will get you guys a sane rate on service in the long run.
You know - I think I may start up a website and mention "Apple" "iPhone" and "Rogers" just to see the numbers roll...... *laughing*
Seriously though - I really do hope all of this is a direct message from Apple to Rogers to get them to smarten the hell up. I mean does *no* one over at Rogers understand that if you keep prices low enough, you'll make scads of money on volume alone? Geeze. It's not rocket science....
@TomeOne: Amen.
@Dean: Well I know that Rogers reps found out two days ago that their stock numbers would be significantly depleted. So maybe Apple had stock issues and kept mum?
Who knows what the exact timeline was, but the reality is that there was a bulk of phones that were supposed to end up in Rogers' hands and now they're not.
@Greg: Thanks for sharing. That makes two people now that confirm there is no wall plug included in the iPhone box. Can anyone else corroborate?
@Anon(8): I hesitate to dignify your comment with a response, but honestly, blaming the reduced stock on those who complained about Rogers' rate plans is pretty lame (and from behind the veil of anonymity, no less.) It is akin to blaming the cops for bad traffic when they're trying to clean up an accident scene: Rogers is responsible for this mess of twisted metal, not consumers.
@Todd: Thanks for your support and sympathy. What we really need is more competition- sadly I don't think even this PR fiasco will provoke change from Robbers Wireless.
@wolfshades: Hear, hear! I had no idea those were the magical keyword when I wrote this post, but what a ride it's been!
And your statement about volume economics is insightful, but the problem is this: volume strategies are most often employed by companies seeking to steal market share from current leaders who enjoy high margins from a narrow body of sales. The reason these are less preferable to high-margin, low-volume strategies is because dollar-for-dollar the former always requires more effort.
But when you have a monopoly scenario like Rogers in the GSM wireless arena, this logic doesn't really apply. Why would the King get off his throne and settle for volume over margin when he has no competition to worry about?
But every empire ultimately falls, and one day when Rogers has some real competition, they'll wish they had cultivated some good will...
@daniel smith: I get what you're saying. But look at it this way: if they had kept their rates at least the same as their Blackberry plans, and had mentioned up front that you could grandfather your telephone rates into it, there would would have been a lot less complaints and a hell of a lot more talk about "how soon are you going to line up on Friday to get your iPhone?" Believe it or not, before the rates were published, there was an actual thread about that (line up times) on one of the Apple-based message boards.
The problem is the marketers didn't put themselves into their customers' shoes on this one. The reaction should have been predictable and obvious. As it stands right now, there will still be some starry-eyed technogeeks who will buy into their plan, but not nearly as many as there would have been, had they done some more upfront research. They really could have cleaned up here, with just a slightly modified (and lower) rate plan.
As it stands now, people like me who have worked out the math on it have decided that the iPhone can go straight to hell this time around. Once the bidding on the network stuff is done and some new players are in place, maybe one of them can compete. At which time I'll be willing to have another look at it. (Starry-eyed technogeek that I am. :))
It's interesting that seemingly Roger's wasn't even given the option by Apple to initiate lower prices and re-acquire the initial order quota.
Apple is just being prudent. I believe the gist of this story. Just tonight I asked a local Roger's Plus dealership what time they begin selling iPhone on Friday and if they expect a line up. I was told that they open at 8am and they expect to be sold out by 10am! Assuming each sing -up takes 15 minutes with two representatives on hand, that equals 16 iPhones close to the figure estimated for each outlet.
The large numbers who signed the petition - presumably some of whom were on the fence waiting out fair price plans and others who had no intention of buying and only using the opportunity to voice a dispeasure with Roger's - have actually made the iPhone a more sought after commodity because the number of available units has been lowered.
Any marketer will tell you that scarcity is one of the prime motivators for consumers making a purchasing decision.
Apple wins. Rogers loses.
Your title rulz! I certainly hope that Apple has found a way to stick it to Rogers, hard! Greed is a nasty habit. BTW... I found your link on iphonesavior.com
Peace!
Rogers was viewing the iPhone as their golden ARPU child, marketing decided that no matter what the plans are like people will pay it. They saw this as their key to overtaking TELUS in ARPU launching their Q3 and Q4. If you really want to make Rogers know how you feel, and plan on canceling - don't. Just reduce your plan to the lowest plan possible and keep it for the remainder of 2008. Sure it will cost you about $120 over the course of the remainder of the year to keep it, but its worth making your voice heard in the most powerful way possible - Rogers stock price.
If half of the petitioners did this, lets assume their current monthly bills are about $60, if they reduce it to $20. Thats a monthly loss for Rogers of about $40. 25, 000 (half the petitioners) x $40 = $1, 000, 000. Not only will they lose $6, 000, 000 over the course of the next 6 months but a large decrease in their subscribers ARPU will be impacted.
Plus if everyone cancels in Dec/Jan, their churn will look brutal at a key time.
Is my thinking too simple? But with most of these things, people just like to bitch but won't do whats necessary to exact any change, so any plans like these (hairbrained or otherwise) wouldn't get off the ground.
I half supsect that the truth is somewhere between Apple punking Rogers and it simply being a worldwide supply problem.
If Apple realized that they weren't on track to having as many iPhone 3Gs ready-to-go as they had hoped, why would they pull those phones from markets where people are excited about the launch?
As Apple, I'd be looking at a country like Canada where people are furious about the data rates and claiming en masse "I can't afford that! No iPhone for me!" and then hold back a large part of the shipment, rather than penalizing other areas of the world where there carriers have their act together, pricing-wise.
You can have your cake and eat it too... in the real world most of us want the iPhone badly enough to suck it up and pay anyway.
As Ian Bell points out, you'll be able to get your 3G iPhone on the grey market and not bolster the statistics of Rogers' sales figures.
You're still using Rogers (sorry) but you're not showing up in their iPhone sales data.
I am an american who bought the iphone on the day it came out here. So I have just over a year's experience with it. I've found months ago that I'd be moving to Toronto and was so sad to have to give up my iphone. Alas, how ironic is it that my arrival date in my new home is July 11th! I've searched through a year's worth of my bills and checked my data usage. I used used more than 170MB on any given month. I feel like I use my phones features quite regularly. I have 3 different email accounts on it and probably receive and check and respond to at least 20 per day. I'm also on the net a lot. (For 6 months, I was relocated within the states as well...so i heavily used the maps feature..quite handy when you don't know your way around). Anyway, I just wanted to post this to try and help people make sense of these data bands. Until I actually looked up my usage, I had no clue as to what I used. Am I getting the iphone when I get to Canada? Hell NO!!! while I ADORE my iphone....screw Rogers! at first I thought...well, it's 60 bucks for the 400MB, well above what I'd normal use, which is the price i pay here in the states. But then I see that ALL cell phone companies seem to treat VERY standard features as add-ons. Really?!! I have to pay to have who is calling displayed?!! system access fee? ...please!
People are still going to buy the iPhone, and with reduced stock, Rogers can announce that the iPhone has "sold out", which will promote the phone, and make it more demanding. People will pay more to get their hands on it. 48k people maybe a large group, but 48k may not actually act. On top of that, 48k people is relatively not THAT big. As nice as all this sounds, I expect Rogers to do nothing. They will still sell all the phones they get, people will still sign up. I hope I'll be wrong, but I don't see how they (rogers) could justify lowering the prices...they still get the money.
After reading the bottom portion of the pricing page on Fido's site (entitled something like "Already a Fido Subscriber?") I decided to call customer service in order to get clarification on what the paragraph says.
If you are already a Fido subscriber, you're in luck. You can keep your current contract, sign a second contract for voice and data, get the iPhone and then put your SIM card from your current phone into the iPhone. So, not only will you have to pay your current plan's monthly fee, but you can then pay the extra $60-$100/month on top of it.
Don't you just love it?
Daniel,
I just wanted to let you know we've covered your story, and are trying to keep up to date with all Rogers/iPhone related news over at iphoneworld.ca
Thanks for the info, I'm obviously extremly interested to see how this pans out.
(Either way I'll be keeping my 2G unlocked iPhone on my Rogers Plan without Data - saving me HUNDREDS a month, probably.)
Everyone should send a message to Rogers by doing the following:
At 6PM July 11th, everyone with a Rogers Wireless phone should turn it OFF for an hour. If Rogers' wireless network was to go quiet for an hour, they would get the message - as well as get a hit to their pocketbook. Use your landline for an hour.
@daniel, thought I should mention that, even though I stumbled here on the iPhone link, persuasion and the written word is a topic of interest for me, so I'll be back.
I don't give a hoot about productivity though. :-)
Anyways, it is not Apple's style to ship a wall adapter in their mobile line (iPods, iPhones). They have always shipped a USB adapter that plugs into your computer. if you want to plug it into something else, you can go buy a USB wall or car adapter. This keeps the hardware and packaging costs down and also enables a booming third-party industry, so you can find good prices and deals. I have used the USB wall plug that came with my wife's blackberry to charge my iPod Touch.
Rumor is true on the iPhone shipment at least. A family member in charge of the cell phone section at Rogers has been told that there will be a total of 2,000 iPhones for the entirety of Canada. Hence, not all stores will be carrying them on the release data.
I suspect 48k people is significant. I don't know exactly how many Rogers outlets there are in Canada but for the sake of argument let's say there are 400 (I believe there are between 500 and 600 Starbucks in Canada and I see more of them than I see Rogers outlets).
So if there are 400 outlets and they were each originally alloted 50 iphones that is only 20,000 iphones allotted for all of Canada. So in relation to 20,000 iphones 48,000 people is alot.
as for the power plug, blackberry's use to ship with a transformer that worked on both 110 and 220 and had interchangable 'heads' for plugging into the wall.... likely similar disign to wath Apple is doing and saves them from having to package differently or making the carriers repackage...
As far as I know, they can't send them to Europe because they used different 3G bands. Maybe to the US, that's the only plausible destination.
Apple Canada shows a picture of the A/C adapter on their iPhone page. It's just a plug with a USB port on the back. It also states that the phone comes with the USB cable and a USB power adapter.
I'd say it definitely comes with the power plug.
I know this is a bit off-topic, but why didn't more people use Fido (before the takeover) when it was the leader in GSM technology? At the time, Rogers' GSM was terrible and often referred to as "swiss cheese" because of all the holes/dead-spots in their network, yet Fido was repeatedly overlooked despite it's better pricing.
Fido's national coverage really wasn't very good. It was only really usable in major centres.
The only thing that we need is for ROGERS the ROBBERS change it's monopolistic drakonian ways and offer exactly the same deal as AT&T does in US. Lower the prices - include UNLIMITED DATA in every plan!
Hi, can someone tell me why it costs to go on the internet with the iphone 3g but not with the original iphone and itouch? (sorry for such a dumb question)
Thanks,
From Michael Geist (http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/455325):
Most of the public criticism has focused on the uncompetitive data rates that render it difficult to maximize the iPhone's potential.
Yet the bigger story is how the Canadian version of the device features a triple lock that is the result of onerous contracts, technological locks and a legislative proposal from Industry Minister Jim Prentice that simultaneously locks consumers in, while locking the competition out.
The effect of locking out the competition is striking since recent Canadian policy has emphasized the need to provide consumers with greater mobility and choice.
The government has introduced wireless number portability that theoretically allows consumers to switch providers but retain their phone number. It has also conducted a successful spectrum auction that may yield future competitors.
In spite of those efforts, the Rogers release of the iPhone is the poster child for how these policy initiatives have failed.
Amazing that we all dislike the company so much, yet have no real choice but to use it. Doesn't that say there is something very wrong with the system? Whatever you think about "pure" capitalism, this is the specific kind of problem is it not supposed to suffer from if it is working properly.
If another carrier appears, Rogers will rue the day they made us all hate them so much.
Trying to get a good idea of what people are thinking they will do on Friday. We can all use this poll to get an idea.
http://www.thisegg.com/iphone/canadaiphone.html
Thank You
@ anonymous:
it still costs money to "get on" the internet over cell towers with the original iphone, rogers just didn't have a specific plan for it. maybe you are thinking of wifi, which the iphone and touch can also use? trust me, as an original iphone user in Canada the phone plans were even WORSE than the new ones posted, data only starts at $80 a month for a usable plan, then you have to do your voice and extras on top of that.
Rogers has it's customer's bent over a barrel and is giving them the high hard one while they still can.
Just get the iPOD Touch and use it at a Hot Spot - it's Free. I have been able to do everything on my iPod Touch that I do on my Macbook with regards to Interent / Surfing etc.... Don't buy an iPhone until Rogers drops their rates to at least $30 - ---unlimited data.
Check out the O2 rates in the UK. Amazing! And the result? They have already been swamped, their pre-order scheme had to close down after a few hours because of the flood of traffic to their site. O2 realized the opportunity this was and gave their customers a price plan which maximised the effect of the huge amount of free marketing this event has received. Obvious when you think about it. Rogers on the other hand decided to screw their customers in the mistaken belief that iPhone users are idiots who'd pay whatever asked of them. Instead of getting thousands of new customers they now have tens of thousands of PISSED OFF customers. Way to go, Rogers. Smart!
God, do we need open competition in the world of wireless. It's *still* only Rogers, Bell and Telus. The 2nd worst thing are the prices of the phones!!! Whoa, Nelly! In the U.S., AT&T plans to sell the phone for $199 (USD). Think WE'LL be paying $199, even $250? I hope Rogers provides some Vaseline w/ that purchase, 'cause we're getting anally butt raped here! OPEN UP THE WIRELESS MARKET, CRTC dolts!!!
This comment may or may not be relevant based on some previous comments about the power supplies/plugs being North American versus European.
Several years ago when I worked in the coroporate world and we ordered RIM Blackberries in quantities of two hundred or so at a time, all the Blackberries came with an International power supply and interchangeable plugs for the appropriate country.
Any chance Apple may be doing the same?
A couple of interesting points from a UK angle. One of the previous comments mentions that the iPhone pre-orders have absolutely flown off the shelf. Interestingly, both o2 and The Carphone Warehouse (the only dealer to sell them here) indicate that they're expecting more stock around 10th/11th July which seems very "just in time" for the launch. Maybe they did the pre-orders to prove to Apple they could move the stock after the 2G version was a bit of a disaster.
Also:
I don't know if there is a bundled adapter, but they're multi-voltage and come with different plug adapters anyway, so no barrier to sending to different country.
The iPhone 3G(very unusually) works on both the European and N American 3G standards.
The only real barrier to diverting stock away from Canada is perhaps the language of the literature, but then two of the three biggest markets here speak English or French anyway!
All in all, maybe there's some truth in this? Being selfish, I hope so, because I'm after a 16GB one!
Rogers had a chance to shine, but they chose greed instead. Now they are paying for their arrogance. We need another GSM provider in this country, or Apple needs a CDMA version of the iPhone...likely neither will ever happen.
I am Canadian from Montreal, but now live in Boca Raton, FL. From what I hear, the plans available from Rogers are high. I think that Rogers is trying to make a mint from the initial offering of teh iPhone in Canada and is genuinely taking advantage of the iPhone introduction. While most expect the cost of a new phone to be highest during its initial introduction, I'm quite certain that most don't expect to be owned by the carrier that provides service. I've never liked Rogers or Canada's antiquated philosophy concerning electronics.
R Walsh
Just wondered onto this on the CBC news website.
Does NOT LOOK GOOD for Rogers at ALL.
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/07/08/tech-iphone.html
Oh...so if I dont buy a data plan I'm still able to go on the internet via wifi for the iphone 3g right?
But... how do you tell that your're online via wifi and not the other one that costs money, to avoid all extra fees?
Thanks again.
@R Walsh: Wow, that CBC piece is dynamite. Yorkdale will probably have to fire a lot of security they hired to handle the expected line-up at the Apple Store.
I was calling around today to find out where an iPhone could be purchased on Friday. Don't bother calling Rogers sales or support about this; they don't know! (This is Tuesday. I guess they don't want to rush anything.) Third parties (Future Shop, etc.) either don't know or are refusing to deny that they'll have it Friday. (The Source confirms they will not have it.)
A Rogers outlet in Hamilton confirmed they will have exactly 10. The Rogers outlets downtown Toronto imply they will have just a handful to distribute. (And who wants to bet that some stock Porche-driving traders haven't handed over big bucks bribes to keep a few reserved?)
It's hard to imagine any diversion is going on in the initial shipment. Those suckers are or were in a container on a big boat from China, and even if you could turn the boat south from Vancouver port to the Panama Canal and head to the UK, all the Canadian vendors of non-functional plastic crap from China would howl. Much more likely it relates to follow-on shipments, if it's real at all.
Has anyone noticed that Rogers has already changed its pricing options? As of Monday, this was added to the website, just below the pricing chart: https://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless-products/iphone_voice_data_packages
While the iPhone 3G Voice and Data Packages allow you to use this device to its fullest and offer savings over separate voice and data plans, they are not the only options available to you. Other pricing options are available. For example, you may choose to combine one of our new data plans ranging from $30 per month (for 300MB) to $100 per month (for 6GB) with a voice plan. Learn More. They are available by calling 1 888 ROGERS1 or by visiting your nearest Rogers retail location.
Already an existing customer?
If you are an existing customer, you may keep your existing voice service plan and add a separate data plan. To check your upgrade eligibility, please call 1 888 ROGERS1 or visit your nearest Rogers retail location.
In other words, it's now possible to combine any voice plan with one of the new data plans, which are, amazingly, even more craptastic than the originals. But at least you can now mix and match, a la AT&T.
Now for the big question: How will Rogers weasel out of this? I'm convinced they will. Spokesperson Liz Hamilton will say something like, In order to delight our customers even more, we purposely announced silly-high prices, so we could drop them and make everyone happy! Or, To emulate Apple's own US roll-out last year, we built-in room for an immediate 40% price cut, right after the mega-fan boys buy in.
I won't be mean and print Spokesperson Liz's phone number here, but those that have it can confirm: she's not answering, and her voice mailbox is full. (I hear she requested a larger capacity, but her division couldn't afford the rates.)
http://www.canadiancontent.ca/issues/0999rogers.html
I've waited a long time to get an iPhone in Canada. I prayed that they wouldn't make a deal with Rogers as I've had dealings with those pirates before. Since they have, the writing on the wall is clear. It's cheaper for me to walk across the border and get an iPhone from AT&T. And I have no doubt there service will be better as well.
that's the problem with monapolies they think they can get away with whatever glad to see Rogers get spank LOL
I was dying to get the new IPhone... I got so screwed by Rogers (honestly, those guys are real theft!!) that if Rogers is the only carriers; I will never get an Iphone and get into more problems with Rogers!!
Hey Mr. Job; How come we can't have the freedom to deal with the carrier of our choices in Canada!! Really, Competition is good at the end and only then I WILL buy the Iphone!! No way that I will give more of me money to Rogers :-(
I wrote directly to Steve Jobs regarding this issue. Basicly I had been shilling for the iPhone to my clients since the confirmation of enterprise functionality, but when the plans came out I was forced to tell them that it wasn't value for money. Basicly, I have said don't buy Apple, buy BES (Blackberry Enterprise Server) as the Data requirements on Blackberries are much MUCH lighter. It isn't Rogers that gets screwed, it is APPLE!
I don't know if it had an effect, or even if it reached him. But I am not the only one who knows his direct email, so I am sure he recived more than a few letters like mine, from professionals who have had to recommend against the iPhone. If your IT guy says it is a bad deal, it will make you think twice before going out and buying ANY tech product.
The fact that Rogers/Fido is the only carrier is not the fault of Steve Jobs. The iPhone is a GSM phone and will only work on GSM networks. The reason for this is that the WORLD uses GSM. However, in Canada the other big players use CDMA (TELUS is working on a GSM network but that is quite hush hush). It doesn't make much sense to develop a totally different hardware platform just to satisfy the small market we have in Canada.
Wake up everyone! I've been on a Bell unlimited data plan with the HTC Touch (I-Phone wannabe) since x-mas and my monthly bill is almost always less than 60$. Unlimited incoming calls to boot!
When the iPhone was introduced I was seriously considering purchasing one, even given the steep entry price.
With the Rogers pricing plans as announced, I'll take a pass.
So both Rogers and Apple lose. That's what happens when the bean counters are handed the reins...
One can only hope that, with the upcoming spectrum sale in Canada, some entity can provide a GSM network which gives Rogers/Fido a run for their money.
Awesome. Mexico.
Mexicans are paying way less for their iPhones from America Movil and only have to sign on for 2 years with similarly priced (arguably better) rate plans.
Rogers is gouging Canadians BADLY.
http://www.itinfusion.ca/wireless/the-canadian-press-iphone-set-to-debut-in-mexico-at-half-its-price-in-the-united-states/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080709.wgtiphone0709/BNStory/Technology/home
I'm from canada. And the cities i'm around, stores only got like 9 phones, one store only 3!!! And bigger cities like london with the big launch, only got 145. Something definatley wrong there. No one got a phone :(
Yes - the stores were quite low on stock. Which is why I dragged my butt out of the bed at 5:30 and got to be first in line at 6:00. There were five in stock at that store: two 16-gig iphones and three 8-gigs.
First time in my life I've ever camped out in advance of anything like this - and it paid off in spades. Only took until 3:00 p.m. this afternoon before I could use it. :)
What do you mean?
I mean the networks were down and I couldn't get my iPhone set up until they came back up. Happened around 3:00 p.m. that day.
@Wolfshades, I'm glad you knew what he was asking. I sure didn't. lol
Oddly enough, Rogers is now s facing a simular problem with the 3Gs. They are out of stock nation wide.
Ordering online tells you that the phone is back ordered 6-8 weeks. Of course, being Rogers, they don;t tell you that untill AFTER your credit card gets billed for the phone.
I ended uyp getting a HTC Magic due to the above.
It's cuios the ROgers lanched the andorid phones a week or so before the iphone. Could this be a Rogers move in the Apple/Rogers chess match?
thank you